This post has three sections: the video itself, the preparatory materials, and the transcript for the 2003 video below. I have arranged the parts in this sequence for ease of comprehension. Mr. Shnoll expresses his thoughts in a non-linear manner, and while this is easily understood in oral speech for a native Russian speaker, reading such a transcript is more difficult. In general, the preparatory materials are comprehensive, and I’ve included the transcript only for completeness. I did these translations with AI. No edits done. The originals can be found here. Mr. Schnoll’s book on this research is freely available here in English. Some further discussions can be found here on GCP website.
Preparatory Materials
Every moment in time has its own appearance. Time is not uniform. What is the phenomenon of macroscopic fluctuation and how can experiments that can be reproduced in any physics laboratory change our fundamental understanding of reality? Professor Simon Shnoll from Moscow State University, who recently received a planet as a gift at the Crimean Astrophysical Observatory, discusses the states of the world and patterns of its change.
This program was rebroadcast on 10.07.2003.
Program materials:
From the article by S.E. Shnoll "Paradoxes and problems of interpreting the phenomenon of macroscopic fluctuations"
1. Macroscopic fluctuations
Macroscopic fluctuations - synchronous increases in the probability of realization of the same detailed structure of measurement result distributions of processes of different nature in different geographical points according to local time - are a manifestation of very general properties of our world.
The description of the phenomenon, perhaps not quite aptly called "macroscopic fluctuations" (MF), boils down to regular changes in the shape of histograms constructed from the results of successive measurements of processes of different nature.
The fine structure of the histograms is not random. It is similar at any given moment, at a given geographical point, when studying processes of any nature - from chemical (biochemical) reactions to radioactive decay.
The shape of the histograms at various geographical points changes synchronously according to local time. This is consistent with the repeated increase in the probability of realization of histograms of a given shape with periods equal to 24 hours, 27 days and a year.
The most easily observable manifestation of MF can be considered the high probability of repeated appearance of histograms of a similar shape in the nearest adjacent time intervals - the "near zone effect".
All this indicates the existence of a certain universal "external force" that determines the fine structure of statistical distributions of measurement results of processes of any nature at a given time and place.
The results of research in recent years lead to an increasingly complex picture of the phenomenon under discussion, namely, to the multiplicity of factors that determine the shape of histograms.
The fine structure of histograms seems to be the result of interference of wave fluxes of cosmic origin. The sources of these (coherent?) fluxes appear to be the Moon, the Sun, and stars. The interference of these fluxes at any given moment, at a given place determines the fine structure of the histograms, where the histograms are the interference patterns determined by the spatial interposition of celestial bodies. Different sources of these wave fluxes contribute to the total interference pattern to varying degrees. It is possible that different factors dominate at different times. The Moon and the Sun seem to determine the shape of histograms to the greatest extent. This is evidenced by the aforementioned periods of increased probability of occurrence of histograms of a given shape. However, the nature of these wave fluxes remains unclear.
2. Changes in the shape of histograms during the times of moonrise and moonset, the sunrise and sunset.
So, the "role" of the Moon and the Sun is differentiated. The high probability of similarity in the shape of histograms during subsequent (in the next days) moonrises and moonsets, sunrises and sunsets has been confirmed. At the same time, a comparison of the shape of histograms obtained from measurements on the same dates of different years gave a result that seems paradoxical:
On the one hand, a year later, accurate to the minute, at the same time of day, during the times of sunrise and sunset, the same shape of histograms is reproduced with a high probability. On the other hand, the shape of histograms can be similar during moonrises and moonsets a year later at a different time of day.
The histograms, as in most of our experiments in recent years, are constructed from 60 results of one-second measurements (i.e. for a total time of 1 min.) of the alpha radioactivity of a 239Pu preparation rigidly fixed on a semiconductor detector (photodiode).
11.11.2000 The sun rises at 7:53 12.11.2000 The sun rises at 7:55. The detailed similarity of the two histograms is obvious, on which the phenomenon of "mirroring" is also visible - the histograms can be right and left. The nature of the often observed chirality of histograms, like other manifestations of MF, remains unclear.
There are 1440 minutes in a day and the same number of histograms can be constructed. Among the 1440 histograms of 11.11.2000 and 1440 histograms of 12.11.2000, only two histograms of this form are unique. The probability of a random realization of these histograms precisely during the time of sunrise is less than 10^−3. Thus, after a day, during the sunrise, the same shape of histograms is realized. This result has been reproduced many times. The shape of the "sunrise and sunset" histograms changes in the following days. But a year later, it is reproduced again with a high probability.
The shapes of histograms during the times of sunrise and sunset of the Sun and the Moon at different times are usually different. However, in some cases, a similar shape of histograms is observed for the moments of moonrise and moonset and sunrise and sunset. Nevertheless, it is not possible to find a shape of histograms specific only to the rises or sets of the Sun or the Moon at all times. This multiplicity of forms of "sunrise-sunset histograms" is apparently explained by the fact that the shape of histograms is determined not only by the Sun and the Moon.
However, despite this multiplicity - and this is yet another paradox - when comparing series of consecutive histograms ranked by "sunrise solar time", when the moment of sunrise is chosen as zero time, synchronicity in the change of histogram shapes is revealed, including in different seasons.
A comparison was made of the shapes of histograms belonging to eleven different series: 1) 07.07.2000, sunrise at 4:59 - Moscow summer time; 2) 16.08.2000, sunrise at 6:01; 3) 15.09.2000, sunrise at 7:00; 4) 15.10.2000, sunrise at 7:00 - Moscow winter time; 5) 12.11.2000, sunrise at 7:59; 6) 26.12.2000, sunrise at 9:01; 7) 02.01.2001, sunrise at 9:01; 8) 16.02.2001, sunrise at 7:59; 9) 10.03.2001, sunrise at 7:00; 10) 02.04.2001, sunrise at 7:00 - Moscow summer time; 11) 25.04.2001, sunrise at 6:01. The comparison was made for histograms corresponding to the same time relative to the moment of sunrise and histograms six minutes (three two-minute intervals) before and six minutes after the sunrise time. According to the results, the most probable similarity of histograms is equal to those equidistant from the moment of the corresponding sunrise = 160 similar pairs out of 660 possible.
From this, it is natural to conclude that the shape of histograms changes according to "solar sunrise time", i.e. taking the moment of sunrise as the starting point. Moreover, this effect does not depend on the season, i.e. on the time of day corresponding to sunrise and sunset, and, consequently, depends little on the height of the Sun's rise, which is different in our latitudes in different seasons.
On the other hand, the probability of the repeated appearance of histograms a year later during the times of moonrise and moonset is equally high. However, a year later, the times of moonrise and moonset fall at different times of the solar day, corresponding to a different position relative to the Sun in space. This independence of the shape of histograms during moonrises and moonsets from the time of day, from the position of the Sun, or from the picture of the starry sky can also be considered a paradox.
3. Problems of comparing the shape of histograms.
It should be emphasized the special nature of the regular change in time of the shape of histograms. In fact, we are talking about a regular increase in the probability of occurrence of a given form. At any given moment, the realization of several different forms is possible. However, the probability ("probability density") of their realization is not the same. The probability of one form or another prevails. This is a striking case of "stochastic determinism". Because of this, to identify the patterns under discussion, it is necessary to compare the shapes of tens and hundreds of thousands of pairwise combinations of various histograms and construct distributions of intervals between similar histograms.
In essence, the main reason for the great laboriousness of these studies is the probabilistic nature of these patterns - the fact, for example, that a given shape of histograms is not necessarily, but only with some (high) probability, repeatedly realized after 24 hours (or after 23:56, 27 days, etc.).
Over the course of many years, an attempt has been made to develop a methodology for computer identification of the similarity of compared histograms. But with the developed methodology of "pattern recognition" and computer programs for comparing histogram shapes, long-term efforts in this area have so far been fruitless. Expert assessments give clearer results than the computer methods developed so far. The task of identifying histograms of different shapes is similar to reading paleographic handwritten texts without preliminary "training" of the computer. Different handwritings outside the context are difficult for the computer to identify. Histograms similar in expert assessment are analogous to the same letter written in different handwritings. The expert makes a decision by identifying the "idea of the form". The computer cannot cope with this task.
On the other hand, the above attempt to link certain shapes of histograms with certain cosmophysical situations - the position of the Sun and Moon relative to the horizon or the time of day - significantly changes the methods of studying MF. Instead of tens (and hundreds!) of thousands of comparisons of any histograms, the study of the shape of histograms at predetermined moments in time - during the times of sunrise and sunset of the Sun or Moon. Despite the fact that this is a less time-consuming work, one can expect clarification of the physical nature of MF along this path.
4. Effects of New Moons.
A striking phenomenon: the realization of the same shape of histograms at the moment of the New Moon, when studying a variety of processes, in different geographical locations, including on a ship in the Arctic and Antarctica, regardless of the time of day and the position of the Moon relative to the horizon in different geographical locations. At the same time, it seems that in this case, "stochasticity" almost disappears and we are talking about a clear causal relationship. This "New Moon form" appears simultaneously, accurate to minutes, all over the Earth. The moment of the New Moon is the time when the Moon completely "obscures" the Sun from the Earth. The actual or imaginary shadow from the solar eclipse falls on different parts of the Earth's surface, and the characteristic shape of the histograms is observed immediately "all over the Earth". This indicates, perhaps, the relativistic speed of "signal propagation".
In a series of histograms constructed every 60 2-second measurements of the alpha activity of 239Pu preparations, it can be seen that in different geographical locations, at different times of the day during new moons, with an accuracy of several minutes, the same shape of histograms is realized. Right and left forms of "new moon histograms" are possible.
S. Shnoll observes this effect during 34 out of 38 new moons studied in different years (1994, 1995, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2002) when measuring processes of different nature in different geographical locations.
It is clear that during new moons, the Moon is exactly between the Earth and the Sun. In cases where the shadow from the Moon falls on the Earth, a solar eclipse is observed. "New moon forms" of histograms are observed in all cases of new moons, regardless of the time of day, i.e., on which part of the Earth's surface the lunar shadow falls. So, if the new moon falls at midnight local time, this real or imaginary shadow falls exactly on the opposite side of the Earth, i.e. is located at a distance of at least 12 thousand km (the diameter of the Earth) from the place where the measurements are taken. New moon histograms are observed with an accuracy of several minutes at any point on Earth - in the Arctic and Antarctic, in middle and high latitudes. It can be concluded that the "new moon effect" has a pulsed short-term character. And this "impulse" propagates at a relativistic speed - the lower limit of the order of 10,000 km/sec. It follows that the cause of the appearance of "new moon histograms" cannot be the tidal forces. Then the only conceivable cause of this effect may be the Moon "blocking" certain "fluxes" coming from the Sun.
5. The possible nature of "Macroscopic fluctuations".
In accordance with centuries-old tradition, the subject of experimental research is usually the measurement of the quantities being studied. In contrast to this tradition, when studying "macroscopic fluctuations", we are not interested in the measured quantities themselves, but in the fine structure of the distributions of the amplitudes of the "scatter of results" in such measurements. The measured quantities themselves may remain unchanged. Establishing the non-randomness of the shapes of histograms does not refute the "foundations" of modern science based on measurements of the studied quantities, and their changes under the influence of various factors, but allows us to see the properties of our world "from a different angle".
Thus, similar changes in the shape of histograms when measuring alpha radioactivity, the rates of chemical reactions, or noise in a gravitational antenna do not at all mean a similar influence of any effects on alpha decay and gravitational noise, but only indicate that this process also reflects the aforementioned general properties of our world.
The only thing common to the above-mentioned processes of different nature is that they occur in the same space-time.
Conclusion
The properties and fluctuations of space-time are reflected in the fine structure of the distributions of fluctuations in the measurement results of processes of different nature. These fluctuations are a manifestation of gravitational inhomogeneity, anisotropy of the surrounding space. As the Earth rotates around its axis, its motion along the solar orbit, changes in the mutual arrangement of the Earth, Moon, Sun and, possibly, other celestial bodies, the structure of space-time changes, which is reflected in the shape of histograms. The very nature of the shape of histograms - narrow "peaks" and "dips", the mobility of this shape - everything resembles interference patterns. It may well be that we are talking about the interference of gravitational waves emitted by celestial bodies. One can foresee fiery objections based on the extremely low intensities of these waves. However, if we are talking about the first or second derivatives of these intensities, the interference of gravitational waves, as a factor determining the shape of histograms, may turn out to be a reality. In this case, the registration of changes in the shape of histograms may turn out to be a method for studying gravitational waves. A method that does not require cumbersome and extremely expensive equipment, with the necessary sensitivity and accuracy not yet achieved.
From the article by S. Shnoll "Fluctuations of space-time and the 'scatter of results' in precise measurements"
At the University, in one of the first problems of a physics practicum, we were introduced to the rules for measuring physical quantities and methods for processing measurement results. And a little later, in lectures and seminars, we mastered the basics of probability theory and mathematical statistics. Since then, we have firmly known the concepts of "systematic error" and "scatter of measurement results".
We know how to deal with them, since for the "overwhelming" majority of problems we have enough knowledge of the first two (three?) "statistical moments" - the arithmetic mean of the measured value and the root-mean-square scatter of the results. It is also essential to know the type of distribution of results - Gaussian, Poisson, etc. To attribute experimentally obtained distributions, "statistical criteria for the agreement of hypotheses" are used (Smirnov - Kolmogorov, Pearson, etc.). This arsenal is enough for us to correct the trajectories of satellites, calculate the cross section of interactions in nuclear reactions, or estimate the effectiveness of drugs. All this is the foundation of science of recent centuries.
Let's go back to the 1st year of university. The task is to construct distributions of measurement results. It is necessary to make the most accurate measurements of the same value. You get a series of consecutive measurement results - i.e. following each other in time. For some reason, these measurements, which are the same according to all controlled criteria, are usually called parallel? However, there is nothing surprising. The 1st second is no better than the 2nd...
You have made 100 identical measurements. Some of the obtained values occur frequently, some rarely. Let's plot a graph - a histogram - along the abscissa axis - the measurement results - along the ordinate axis - how many times a given result was encountered. A naive student brings the drawn graph to the teacher - and does not get credit - you cannot present the measurement results like this! Such histograms in mathematics are denoted by the term "inconsistent"! - In them, the number of categories on the abscissa axis is comparable to the number of measurements. It is necessary to "properly" group the measurement results and approximate the resulting distribution with a corresponding smooth Gaussian (Poisson) distribution... The quality of the approximation is checked by the criteria for the agreement of hypotheses.
The main content of the article is the statement: the detailed shape of "inconsistent histograms" is not random, it contains information about the state of our world at the time of measurement.
This is not an easy conclusion. It seems to contradict the foundations of science of recent centuries. But it only seems so. In fact, this conclusion does not shake any foundations. As stated above, for all (almost) scientific problems, the fine structure - the peculiarities of the shape of histograms - is not essential. Indeed, what do we usually study? We study "influences", "effects", changes in various indicators under the action of various "forces". The "scatter of results" is only an interference in accurate measurements. And we are discussing further the subtleties of this scatter of results.
Perhaps the most suitable object for our purposes is radioactivity measurements. Alpha decay is best. With proper measurement culture, under "terrestrial conditions", it is possible to exclude assumptions about any influences on the rate of radioactive decay.
A series of long-term measurements of the alpha activity of a 239Pu preparation rigidly fixed on a semiconductor detector was carried out. The number of pulses was measured for every consecutive 6 seconds. The result is that neighboring histograms are most often similar to each other.
To make sure that this effect is not random, it is necessary to compare many hundreds of such histograms, i.e. investigate tens of thousands of possible pairwise combinations of them. This was done, as a result, the conclusion is that the probability of similarity of the nearest neighbors is very high. The "near zone effect" means that the shape of histograms is not random. Histograms are constructed from non-overlapping segments of a time series. This means that there is a "lifetime of the idea of a given form" and this time is longer than the duration of the time series segment corresponding to one histogram. This effect is not a consequence of instrumental artifacts, nor a consequence of any preference for certain counting rates in the measuring system - there are no such preferences for radioactive radiation counters.
If we again turn to the measurement results, we note that after the near zone effect and a decrease in the probability of repeated occurrence of histograms of a given shape, this probability again sharply increases when the interval between similar histograms approaches 24 hours.
This means that the phenomenon under study is somehow connected with the rotation of the Earth around its axis.
The probability of re-occurrence of histograms of a given shape also increases exactly a year later and, no less important, approximately 27 days later. In the region of 27 days, apparently, there are several distinguishable periods. All this means that the fine structure of histograms is determined by cosmophysical factors - the rotation of the Earth around its axis, its movement along the solar orbit, the mutual arrangement and state of the Sun - Earth - Moon.
Establishing a connection between an increase in the probability of repeated occurrence of histograms of a given shape with the rotation of the Earth around its axis leads to the need to distinguish between "sidereal" and "solar" days. The sidereal day is 3 min 56.56 s shorter than the solar day (24 h 00 min).
We carefully studied the structure of the "near-daily period". I. M. Zvereva (Faculty of Physics, Moscow State University or SINP MSU?) for 1.5 months in October-November 1997 measured the alpha activity of 218Po with a single measurement duration of 1.72 s. The time series of measurement results was divided into segments of 50 values and histograms were constructed for them - each covering a total time of 86 s. When comparing about 200,000 pairwise combinations of histograms, 14,552 similar pairs were selected. The maximum probability of re-occurrence of histograms of a similar shape is shifted towards 23 hours 56 minutes. Similar results were obtained with a detailed processing of the results of other measurements. This means that the shape of histograms is determined, among other things, by the exposure of a given area of the Earth's surface relative to the sphere of fixed stars... It looks like we are really going beyond the solar system. I'm starting to smell the bonfires of the Inquisition...
What "physical meaning" does the discrete structure of detailed distributions have - the shape of the corresponding histograms? We see "peaks" and "dips" in histograms - some values obtained during measurements are more probable than others. As stated, we are not talking about the influences on radioactive decay. Different shapes of histograms can be observed with the same arithmetic mean values. Each of the histograms corresponds, according to the criteria for the agreement of hypotheses, to the Poisson distribution. And Poisson statistics cannot explain the presence of narrow peaks and dips. According to these statistics, the width of the peaks should be equal to ±N/2, where N is the arithmetic mean of the measured value. The values of N1, N2, N3 for different peaks and dips are very close to each other and therefore they should have overlapped with a "scatter" of ±N/2.
So, again: we are not talking about impacts on the process under study. And it would be strange to think about the influences of mysterious forces on the process of radioactive decay. What are we talking about then?
About 20 years ago, it was shown that at any given moment, the shape of histograms is highly likely to be similar in processes of very different natures. This entire phenomenon does not depend on the nature of the process. Over the past years, we have carried out measurements of the rates of biochemical and chemical reactions, the velocity of latex particles in an electric field, the relaxation time of water protons in a magnetic field, the waiting time for the discharge of a neon lamp in an RC generator circuit. We compared the results of radioactivity measurements in different laboratories with measurements of noise in a gravitational antenna, measurements of oscillations of the Earth's crust, measurements of neutron fluxes of cosmic and geophysical origins.
General conclusion: the shape of histograms does not depend on the nature of the process, does not depend on the range of changes in energy accompanying the process. The shape of histograms depends only on place and time. At the same time, we are talking about local time. At the same local time, similar histograms are realized with a high probability in processes of different natures.
To verify this, it was necessary to carry out measurements in different time zones. For this purpose, we performed a series of studies with continuous simultaneous measurements of processes of different nature in Pushchino and at the Max Planck Institute for Aeronomy (Germany, Lindau), in Pushchino and at the International Biophysical Institute (Neuss, near Düsseldorf, Germany), in Pushchino and at the Arctic Institute in Murmansk, Apatity, St. Petersburg, in Pushchino and on the ship "Akademik Fedorov" during an expedition in the northern seas.
Similar-shaped histograms are highly likely to correspond to local time. Moreover, it should be emphasized that we are talking about differences in local time (not zone time), corresponding to differences in geographical coordinates.
An even clearer result was obtained by comparing histograms constructed from measurements of the alpha radioactivity of 239Pu in Pushchino (K. I. Zenchenko) and measurements of the gamma radioactivity of 137Cs in Columbus (Nuclear Center, Ohio State University, USA, by M. S. Benford and J. Talnagy). At a distance of over 10,000 kilometers and a local time difference of 8 hours, we see an extremely high probability of synchronous changes in the shape of histograms precisely according to local time.
At the same time, there are reasons to believe that histograms of different shapes are caused by different factors, reflect different patterns - some follow solar days to the greatest extent, others follow sidereal days. Some are more responsible for the "near zone" effect, others for the "local time" effect. However, so far it has not been possible to realize the dream - to classify all possible shapes of histograms - to divide them into clusters. Each cluster - a typical form - is designated by a certain letter. Then, instead of sequences of histograms, we get a sequence of letters - and the time series of histograms becomes a text. That's when you can use all the achievements of text analysis.
What does all this mean?
We see that as the Earth rotates around its axis and moves along its solar orbit, different geographical points are equally "exposed" relative to the Sun, Moon, fixed stars, the shape of histograms constructed from measurements of processes of any nature changes regularly.
The only thing common to all processes is that they occur in the same space-time. Hence, it is natural to conclude that changes in the shape of histograms reflect changes in space-time. These changes may be due to the gravitational inhomogeneity of our world. The rotation of the Earth around its axis can be likened to the movement of a wheel along a cobblestone pavement, along gravitational inhomogeneities.
We have seen that the narrow peaks and dips in the histogram figures cannot be explained by probabilistic reasons. Histograms most of all resemble interference patterns. At any given moment at a given point on Earth, certain waves generated by gravitational "condensations" in the surrounding world are summed up, interfere. These waves are shielded by the Earth and reach a given geographical point only under the condition of "direct visibility" of the corresponding source. Interference patterns - histogram figures are determined by the ratio of phases, amplitudes, lengths, angles at which different waves fall on the object. What kind of waves are these? If I were not afraid of the wrath of professionals, I would say that we see the interference of gravitational waves...
The above is only a concise outline of the state of this problem. There are many mysterious features of this phenomenon. The combinations of physical and mathematical patterns that determine the realization of histograms of a given shape are extremely interesting. It is necessary to carry out many more various studies, including and above all on satellites. But all this is beyond the capabilities of our small team. It is probably clear to the reader that work of such nature has no market equivalent and therefore we have never received grants to provide specifically for these studies. This may turn out to be a typical Russian pattern. Then, after us, richly equipped institutes in different countries will thoroughly investigate the problem, and future leaders of our science will be pleased to emphasize the domestic priority.
Bibliography
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Transcript
Transcript of the program "GORDON" on NTV channel.
"FACES OF TIME" - 10.07.03
Participant:
Simon Elievich Shnoll - Professor at Moscow State University, Doctor of Biological Sciences
Simon Shnoll: I am somewhat embarrassed to be on the air. I'm embarrassed because right now, probably many of my friends and colleagues are worried and watching how I will tell what I intend to tell. And for me, the embarrassment is also connected with the anniversary. Anniversary because in September of 1951, I was assigned to work in a branch of the atomic project. There was very strong radioactivity there. And my specialty is biochemistry. But in this organization, work ended at 3:00 pm - and everyone left. And from 3:00 pm to 12:00 am, I conducted my biochemical experiments. My beloved teachers, later academicians, at that time still professors, Sergei Evgenievich Severin and Vladimir Alexandrovich Engelhardt, took a keen interest in me, even though I was hidden in a box. I did experiments. And I am an excellent student. This means that I work carefully. And I faced a terribly unpleasant phenomenon - a strange scatter of measurement results. It was in September of 1951. This phenomenon confused me, I wrote down in a notebook, which I still have, to find out what the matter was, and then to deal with the main topic. Now my life is ending. 51 years have passed. It was September 8, 1951, soon it will be 51 years, and I have not figured out what the matter is. But what happened as a result, and I steadily, always did this, despite writing books, doing other works, otherwise I would not have been paid a salary. This is what I will tell you today. Because, I believe, what should substantially change the view of the world as a result of this slow, non-advertised, unhurried occupation. I am already old, I can not boast. I can say - it substantially changes. This is evident from the sharpness and rejection with which other excellent students, my peers and others, accept my words.
Alexander Gordon: This is an important indicator.
S.Sh. I know excellent students. They... and I am like that to some extent, but not like everyone else, maybe. Those who study well, when they pass the last exam, now they know the sciences. And what is added to this seems to them, well, it can't be - we know. We passed. And now we know all this. And there is nothing to tell us...
Now I will just show my first experiment.
A person takes measurements. This is the horizontal axis, this is the measured value. I work well and should hit this point. I hit this point and see where the next, second measurement will fall. As all people measure, as they are still taught. When you take a measurement, you should not take one, of course, well, take two and take the average. You make the second one, it did not coincide with the first one, well, this is a natural scatter of results. Still, they diverged strongly for an excellent student, he should be more precise. I make a third one. For some reason, it turns out to be here. Astronauts were once taught - make three measurements, record two close ones, and discard the third. And this is how it is done in science even now. But cultured, high-class people make another measurement. And they make a few more measurements. Here I write down the result of the next measurements each time. And I worked very carefully after my radioactive exercises, there the accuracy of work was a condition of survival. But I had very large differences in the results of the same measurements. This is unpleasant - I do everything correctly, I do everything as carefully as possible - but I have a scatter of results more than I could afford. It was not radioactivity yet. Radioactivity was in the afternoon. In the morning. In the evening - biochemistry. Then I began to make 10 measurements. And instead of filling this entire space... And everyone knows, all our listeners, everyone studied, everyone knows that there should be Gauss, where the results most often fall in the middle, in the mathematical expectation. But it was not at all like that for me. There were heaps here, heaps here, here. And if you draw all this according to how many times which value of the measured quantity was obtained, then you get not such a pleasant and textbook Gauss, but some kind of squiggle like this.
Normal people, again, I mean all the time those who studied well, know that you should not pay attention to this, because there is a mathematical apparatus, a criterion for the agreement of hypotheses, using which you can estimate that all these details are actually negligible, they fall into a band within which all this fine structure does not deserve attention. This is accidental, a random accident.
And everything would be fine, but I put one experiment, I put another experiment, and if in the first experiment there was such a picture, then for some reason in the second experiment, the next day, there is often the same thing, not quite the same, but for a normal eye, unobscured by higher education and such self-confidence - they are very similar. I began to do 10, 20, 25 identical measurements. Humanity, which here studies in universities, knows such a concept - parallel samples. When you do everything under otherwise equal conditions, everything is the same, you call these samples parallel. It did not confuse me then. I also knew that these were parallel. Only many years later did I realize that they are not parallel, but sequential. They are separated in time. No one ever thinks about it. We work the same way. No one even writes seconds and minutes in laboratory journals. And how do they write in journals? Well, good if it is written - an experiment was put before lunch. Or - after lunch. It took a long time before I began to look at the stopwatch, at the clock, and see when this sample was made. Actually, by the end of today's story, I will come to this. But, actually, the end is this: every second of time in space, here in our space-time, has its own appearance.
My beloved and highly respected teachers followed me. And I told them, especially my most important teacher - Sergei Evgenievich Severin. He told me: "You know, Simon, you work on muscle proteins, Vladimir Aleksandrovich Engelhardt knows everything about them." And I went to Engelhardt to tell him about these experiments. By this time, 5 years had already passed. 5 years later, when every day I looked - what is the matter?
And I rejected all the trivial thoughts - that there is some temperature jumping, that the concentrations are not the same, the test tubes are made of different glass, the pipettes are not the same, the solutions are inhomogeneous? No, no, no, no. I'm not to blame. No one is to blame, but it jumps and gives such discrete pictures. What does this mean? This value is more probable than the intermediate one. Some strange quantization.
I came to Vladimir Aleksandrovich, there was a seminar, and he gave me wise advice. You know, he said - don't do so many samples, and this won't happen. That's all I got from a highly respected beloved teacher. And I didn't bother him anymore.
When these pictures began to accumulate systematically. Year after year, month after month, I made a very big report, it was, terrible to say, I know the exact date, March 27, 1957. And then the reaction of the seminar participants was ... that this is an amazing thing. But when I left this seminar, they said: "What a student! ... After all, he has gone crazy." And the stigma that a person who pays attention to random pictures - well, of course, is abnormal. And they began to treat me carefully ...
I continued to work with radioactivity and biochemistry. But I couldn't publish anything. Not a single line would have been published if not for Sergei Evgenievich Severin, who did not support the opinion that I had gone crazy ... He believed that everything was fine, it could be published.
So, many years have passed. Almost every day, or as much as I could, an experiment was put. And gradually I accumulated many types of pictures. And the experiments are very hard. It's to whom to tell - I, for example, made 250 identical measurements of the rate of a biochemical and chemical reaction with an absolutely iron concentration. I had two wonderful employees. I had the opportunity to ask them for help in the laboratory. For 25 years from 8.00 am, with a 15-second interval, 250 measurements until, respectively, 10 hours there. 25 years from the morning, without raising my head. We have accumulated many pictures. And it was chemistry. I defended my doctoral dissertation on the topic "Special properties of proteins in which there are such pictures." And everyone listened to me, and the defense was long, heavy, but successful. And I thought ... about the properties of proteins.
This was in 1970, the defense. I received a diploma and became a professor, and everything seemed to be good, when a few years later it became clear that this all has nothing to do only with proteins.
In short, this phenomenon is inherent in any measurements on Earth! In general, any. And my specialty - this I say just in case for critics: radioactivity. I was and remain a professional in radioactivity measurements. I thought that all these anomalies had absolutely nothing to do with radioactivity measurements. Well, radioactivity - everything is clear there. There is the Poisson distribution... After Rutherford and other great scientists, we know everything there, and there is nothing to do there.
And already being a professor at the Faculty of Physics for many years, I asked a graduate student Tanya to come and measure radioactivity on automata for control, so that this phenomenon would not exist. I know that there is nothing there. She brought me the measurement results. It was 1979. She brought printouts, I drew a detailed picture of the distributions - and I felt unwell. Those who are engaged in science will understand me - I felt sick. The picture was exactly the same - measured in Moscow - as I had in Pushchino, 100 kilometers away, with chemistry. There was a chemical experiment, and here was a radioactive one. What does it mean to feel sick - it means there is no strength to work. There are no thoughts. And I stopped this work. And I endured the termination for almost a year. I couldn't start. In December 1980, it was necessary to overcome this state.
And my beloved colleague, former student, Vadim Ivanovich Bruskov, reluctantly, realizing that this was nonsense, took two counters, two automata measuring without a person, took two identical preparations, and measured 250 times each. We drew two pictures - this time we both felt sick. Vadim Ivanovich said - this cannot be, they are similar. But these are independent processes. Radioactivity is a classic random process. When they want to get a random process, they make either now on computers, random number generators, or radioactivity. And so, since 1980, for 22 years, I have been dealing with radioactivity every day. This is my specialty. I knew that there was none of this there. But there is all this there.
So, the thesis is - in any processes we have looked at chemistry over these years, well, biochemistry at first. The motion of particles in an electric field, magnetic phenomena. All types of radioactivity, alpha and beta, completely different, strong interactions, electroweak interactions. And everywhere is the same thing. And it became sick again. This is a crisis in consciousness every time.
The fact is that, for example, radioactivity, alpha decay differs from the energy range, from some kind of chemistry by 30 orders of magnitude. This is unimaginable! And when we later looked at the measurement results carried out in the laboratory of Valentin Nikolaevich Rudenko, measurements of noise in a gravitational antenna, there are 40 orders of difference. This is noise, completely insignificant. But the distribution of amplitudes is just as tricky. A very complex set of figures. Diverse. This is what I drew here, two identical ones. There you can make a whole collection of hieroglyph-like figures, a collection of realized figures.
One might think that these are different states. No, these are states, all fit into one normal distribution. These cannot be probabilities of decay. Not so that there are atoms of this kind and that. This is all homogeneous. This is something else.
So, the thesis is - in any processes the physics is absolutely different, there is nothing in common between the processes, but the pictures are the same. The next stage in these works - we take two counters. We started with them. One counter is in one building of the institute, the other is in the other. Similar pictures are obtained with a high probability. This does not mean that every picture is similar. But if you go through a hundred of these and a hundred of those, it turns out that synchronously, at the same time (now time has gone), they have the same pictures. Further it is clear. My friends at the Moscow Engineering Physics Institute, at MEPhI, measure alpha radioactivity in Moscow. We measure something else in Pushchino, 120 kilometers away - chemistry or beta activity. We get pictures at a distance of 100 kilometers synchronously. Then it just occurred to me that we are on the same meridian - and that's why. We began to disperse - Leningrad, Moscow, Pushchino; Tomsk, Pushchino. And everywhere we find similar things, but with Tomsk it is bad, because it is far away. And the conclusion - on the same meridian with a high probability in completely independent processes, pictures are obtained, I can then show, it is very difficult to show an experiment here. Yes, I have everything published in articles, they are regularly published, whoever wants to - will read. So, the process does not depend on nature. Synchronously in independent measurements of processes of different nature, similar distributions are obtained.
And the next step: determining which time interval separates the most probable pictures. Now the abscissa is the time interval, and here is how many times similar pictures were encountered. And the picture looks like this. Most likely, most often, similar patterns are found in the nearest neighboring time intervals. This is called the "near-zone effect" in our laboratory. Then the probability of obtaining similar distributions falls, but some time passes - and a critical moment - after a day, here after 24 hours, the probability of re-appearance of similar distributions rises again, This is the diurnal variation - it was amazing, it means that something happens synchronously with the Earth's rotation. There is nothing else to blame - a day. Well, normal experimenters will say - a day, human activity. No. This is radioactivity. This is an automaton. There is no dependence on temperature, pressure, humidity, no conceivable artifacts. It is generally impossible to influence radioactivity. It cannot be influenced in any earthly way. I could have come up with something on proteins there or on chemistry. A dumb counter gives a diurnal variation. And from here the thought - the first thought: the Earth... it rotates around its axis. And as our laboratory moves under this picture of the sky surrounding us... I like the concept - the crystal vault of heaven. We turned under this star or ... solar, lunar picture - and such a picture appears. From this followed the conclusion - if so, then in other places, on other meridians, such a picture will appear with a high probability when the Earth turns to the same local time.
This experiment was met, of course, with the same strong distrust as all previous experiments.
And we saw that with a high probability, similar histograms appear in different geographical points at the same local time.
They told a wonderful person about this, the director of the Max Planck Institute for Aeronomy, Lord and Professor Axford. He came to Pushchino. Listened. And he was silent. It confused me a lot. He said it was so interesting, let's do an experiment - measure radioactivity in Pushchino and in Lindau (Germany, where this institute is located). There are about 2 thousand kilometers between us and more than 2 hours difference in local, longitudinal time. Tatyana Alexandrovna and Konstantin Igorevich Zenchenko went to Lindau. They endured a stormy discussion at a seminar there. Professor Axford helped them. And the experience turned out - with an accuracy of several minutes, synchronously in local time, with measurements of a different nature, histograms of a similar shape were obtained with a high probability.
I haven't even managed to properly tell about this, as my friends Vladimir Leonidovich Voeykov, who was here with you, and Lev Vladimirovich Belousov, working on their own topics, one in Germany near Düsseldorf, and the other in Moscow, put on my request a wonderful experience.
With an accuracy of up to one and a half minutes in local time, the same picture ... This is observed at huge distances. But our record is the United States - Pushchino. 8-hour difference, up to a minute.
Conclusion: indeed, as the Earth rotates, the same picture is obtained. Well, what is it? And what could it be? Processes of any nature... are connected with the rotation of the Earth. But the Earth not only rotates around its axis, it also moves around the Sun.
We can look at the similarity over the years. This is also not for the faint of heart. You look a year later, on the same day, at the same hour - and you find the same picture. We are talking not about individual histograms, but about the probability of the appearance of similar histograms. To do this, you have to compare tens of thousands of pictures - histograms. Otherwise, the material accumulates, and it can no longer be processed.
Well, I understand what the listeners and viewers will say, but what are computers for. They are worse than the eye. You still have to check with your eyes. And then it turns out that the picture is repeated after a year and after six years. With some distortions. So, indeed, the surrounding environment, the relative position of the Moon around the Sun and other celestial bodies determine this picture. So what is it?
At every given moment, note at a given moment, at a given spatial point, that is, in four-dimensional space-time, with a high probability, the influences of various cosmic bodies are combined so that one of these pictures is obtained. We distinguish about twenty different pictures. I will show them later if I have time.
Well, what kind of pictures. The thing is this. Such narrow lines, like the ones here, cannot be probabilistic. I will just start for physicists. In "Poisson" plus or minus the square root of "N". There can be no narrow lines there. Only the interference of wave processes gives narrow pictures. Don't let the theorists ask me, it's their business, what waves interfere. I'm afraid of them, because they will start a discussion about the nature of the waves among themselves, and theorists are arranged so wonderfully that they will equally theoretically justify both "pro" and "contra".
I dare not intrude into an area where I am not competent. The task of our campaign, there are very few of us, there are five of us, well, maybe six, is to say that this is true. And we said that. This is true. And further, this means that the rotation of the Earth around its axis, its motion along the circum-solar orbit is not a smooth motion, it is a motion along a cobblestone pavement. We are shaking due to the gravitational heterogeneity of the world. And it never occurred to anyone, because we are shaking inside the world, we are shaking together with it. This seems like a paradox, how is it possible, being inside the world, to see this "unevenness", it will be clear further. In mechanics, d'Alembert and other great people said in similar cases that this was impossible. It is possible if you use instruments with different sensitivity. I can measure time with an accuracy of up to the sixth digit with quartz. And in chemistry I have measurements with an accuracy of up to the second or third digit, so the speeds of chemical processes can be measured with high accuracy by other processes in which fluctuations also occur, but in other digits. In quartz, which we use to measure time, everything is only in the sixth digit. And here in the second. Therefore, with an instrument from a more distant area of fluctuation, I can measure a phenomenon with a close, larger-scale area of fluctuations. And in this sense, biochemistry has the largest spreads. I can also say with pride. Usually physicists mocked biologists, saying that biology is working with bad instruments on bad objects. And chemistry, well, this is working on bad objects with good instruments. And physics is working on good objects with good instruments. It's all a lie. Biology has the most interesting objects. There are such amplifiers inside that we have everything blurred enormously. In chemistry, there are slightly fewer amplifiers, and in quartz only in the sixth digit. But quantum generators, which measure the best, are in the tenth digit. Well, the pictures are the same. We have shown it all. In all ranges, as soon as the result was analyzed in fractions, not in absolute terms. Let's see, the pictures are the same. That's actually almost everything I said. This means that we are dealing with fluctuations of space-time associated with gravitational heterogeneity, reproducible, as long as we have not gone too far. As long as we are still in the same, so to speak, point in the galaxy. And there is a wonderful movement. We now have one more exciting than the other very interesting movements. For example, here the sun rises. The situation changes sharply. We mark the sunrise by the pictures. But the moon also rises. And the moon has its own. They have different parties. The moon defeats the sun. And this is a sign that gravity, most likely, so to speak, takes precedence here. There are histograms of the combined actions of the Moon and the Sun. And the starry sky is superimposed on this.
Throughout 2000, from morning to night, I compared histograms constructed in less than 16 seconds each - I detailed the diurnal variation. It turned out that the period is not 24 hours - solar days, but 23 hours 56 minutes - these are sidereal days. So the picture of the starry sky at any given moment is important.
The probability of getting such a result by chance is extremely small. In addition to sidereal days, there is also an annual period. There is also an amazing period that pleases astrophysicists so much - 27 days. A 27-day period, there is a mass in the solar system of processes. There are still a lot of details. It is better to get acquainted with them according to the published works of our laboratory.
But I must say about the life of science. We have no strength. There are few of us. We do this with the last of our strength and wait for others to come after us, unfortunately, after us, it sometimes sounds too epic, to come after us. How long to wait for this? And will we still be at this time? Or only after, most likely after. Because the sadly elegiac statement of Max Planck is unshakable. You know, he said this: new things are never perceived by contemporaries. Never at all. But simply the authors die, and the next generations are not clear about the reasons for the disputes. What were they arguing about. I think that for me this is a more plausible, as they say, scenario. True, for my young people, if only they endure the living conditions in which we live, the forecast may be more optimistic. They will still continue this business.
We have basically completed our task. It is published by us and now abroad. This is met accordingly, as befits excellent students, convinced of their incomplete knowledge. I have never denied myself participation in battles, so to speak. And I have never been beaten publicly. To give up at a seminar is something that has never happened. But when an article comes out, and the high bosses, academic ones, do not consider it shameful to say somewhere to the editor: what are you publishing, but not to me. I then find out about it.
I am moving, in fact, to the social problem of new knowledge. New knowledge must be difficult to pass, otherwise we fill science with inflamed imagination. Niels Bohr said that an idea is not crazy enough to be true. These are wonderful words, but to understand them in such a way that all crazy ideas are true is a violation of logic. Unexpected things, new concepts are the life of science. They must be tested. I think we have passed this test. No one else, no one more carefully, of the people I know, puffed and checked the details. It's the theorists' turn. But in order for those who did this to be able to do such things, a completely special organization of science is needed. We have not received a single grant for this work over all these years. I write applications every year. For some time I didn't even get rejections. It's just like it's not there. Well, the time will come - there will be.
There is such an elegiac, so to speak, picture. I really love meetings dedicated to domestic priority. They put up a portrait, decorate it with coniferous or other branches, and well-dressed, well-fed people make speeches, talk about how he worked there and how things were. It's all very cute. And I promise them, when a portrait is put up, one of my young people will say, but where were you. This is not to say that, so to speak, it is really so. It is impossible for a graduate student to receive a scholarship less than what is needed to pay for a bed in a dormitory, which, moreover, is little suitable for living. Impossible. It is impossible for young people to live without housing, unknown where. They would spend the best forces of their youth on a hungry, unsettled existence. Family, a child was born - a catastrophe. Then they all leave. From our laboratories, seven of the best are there, the entire middle layer. Our laboratory in Pushchino for almost 39 years of its existence has done a lot. Twenty doctors, twenty professors came out of it. And about fifty candidates. Where are they? They adorn most of the Universe with themselves. Well, this situation is very acute in the Pushchino Center. Such a wonderful Pushchino Center was made. Well, just the best place on earth, everything is fine. And how touching the institutes and hungry young people are. Moreover, at least the academic authorities would understand this. Now there has been a separation. Pushchino University was made, we collect the best graduates of all universities from all over Russia. I'm afraid to offend. But this is because I don't know a foreign language well. I remember that in French a pigeon is a "pigeon". These are the pigeons that surround us, for them a provincial university is already so bad that the Academy of Sciences rises against Pushchino University, having called it to itself. I think that this is not the place here, but someday something needs to be done about it. The state will perish. We are already on the verge. And if the last young people leave, and we are 70 years old, 65 years old, our age, just about to stretch a little more, no country can live. And here no Academy of Sciences can cope with this. Firstly, it is not all our age, and there is even a special vice-president for working with youth. A good person, but what can he do. What can he do when even a professor at Moscow University, to which I belong. I'm riding the bus and I see an ad. Conductors are required. The minimum salary is four and a half thousand. This is more than the salary of a professor at Moscow University. It's useless. Here neither President Putin nor anyone else can do anything. It's some kind of viscous environment. It wasn't like that during the war. Money is now given for such a salary. You cannot live on it normally. But we cannot buy a single device. We have reached a state where our former employees send what they can from abroad. I will not touch on this topic. I want to say that maybe this is a property of Russian science. To live in poverty and do original work. We are very proud of this. Such original people. Well, I won't talk about this topic anymore.
I want, nevertheless, to say that we receive tremendous pleasure every day. It compensates for everything. I am now putting an experiment, which I will not even talk about. If it succeeds, then I will ask. It will be such an illustration of anisotropy in space-time, let them then do what they want.
A.G. I want to offer you here to remember that this is not a seminar. One. That you don't have opponents here in the person of representatives of academic science. Let them look, it's their business. I say they can turn off the TV. We are not responsible for anything here in this sense. Still, based on the enormous work that you have done, can you now, teasing them, those very theorists you talked about, make some generalizations?
S.Sh. I can. I can say that, strangely enough, streams of coherent rays associated with celestial bodies fall on the Earth. I'm afraid to say the words "gravitational waves". I know that there is a dimensionless factor of ten to the minus twentieth. And, it would seem, that's all. Well, who knows what forces there should be. Streams fall from everywhere. Each moment of time has its own appearance. Is it important? Maybe not.
What has science been doing for the last three hundred years? Well, since the time of Galileo. Yes, earlier, of course. Measures. What does it measure? For our entire scientific life, to which I also belong, three points are important - mathematical expectation, mean square, well, and also, therefore, asymmetry, excess. Well, four moments. We have enough to correlate, correct the trajectory of satellites. To do everything. No one cares about this picture. This picture, which we considered random in vain. Now we know that it is not random. Is it important to know? Maybe not. Not at all. For humanity, maybe not. Except for those who need to know the state of the world at a given moment. And is it important for us to know the state of the world at a given moment? I'm afraid so. I'm afraid so. I think we have sunk to the very bottom, to the very foundation of the cosmophysical connections of the Earth.
Therefore, my generalization is this. We are in the stream of external wave phenomena, I don't know which ones, I can say the word "gravitational", but I can't think of anything else, in which space and time are distorted. And in this stream, maybe these pictures are signals about the state of the world and which it would be useful for us to learn to read. I'm afraid of biblical examples. Yes, now humanity, watching TV, has probably already forgotten that there was such a prophet Daniel. And when a strange hand described the fiery letters on the wall, the feasters could not read these words. Do these signals write words to us about the state of the world every moment, every second? We see portraits of time. And we don't know what to do with it yet. And I don't know. I have no knowledge, I see, I can't read. Therefore, the generalization is this: we see fluctuations of four-dimensional space-time, and in what form these fluctuations, waves, let all the theorists decide. I have a very good attitude towards theorists. I am overwhelmed by their skill, in fact, and I expect that someone will still say something. But theorists are unhappy people. They are terribly afraid of getting into an awkward position. Some fool experimenter leads them by the nose, they cannot see the mistakes themselves. And so they prefer to wait for now. I can tell them: brothers, don't be afraid. Everything is well polished here. And it would be good to live to see that some person will build a real physical theory. Not mine, with words and waving my hands, that there is interference there. But a theory. But there is little hope so far. Among the old academicians, I can still find such people, but there are simply no young ones. But the students will not undertake it. But, probably, I have finished my monologue.
A.G. Somehow you are sadly summing up the experience, the 50-year result.
S.Sh. The result is amazing. I am sure that this is true. After all, I really was on the verge of a shift. I thought that this could not be. Yes, I have to convince myself every day that everything is there. No, the result for me is not the result of my whole life. I have written books, there are hundreds of articles there. Well, still, it's worth something. Doctors and candidates whose lives are close to me. No. This is the price. We cannot measure fate according to our expectations. I even think that this is absolutely impossible.
A.G. It would be extremely curious to determine how the forces you described affect not only the measurement results, but also the behavior of society, biological species, and humans. After all, there must be such a connection?
S.Sh. It definitely exists, and you can even imagine how it is, why it exists. Because our behavior is determined by the state of the brain, the brain is biochemistry, it is the separation of charges, the movement of potassium, sodium, calcium ions there, and here and so on, we have all the rational basis of behavior, emotions, mass ones. After all, this is Chizhevsky again. When Chizhevsky did his doctoral dissertation at a young age on the topic "Historical processes and solar activity", he already had everything in mind. And therefore, in fact, because of this, he was harassed, then because there was no Marxism there - there was just an amazing correlation.
A.G. Speaking of the nature of these waves, the gravitational nature or any other, did you check the seven-year, eleven-year cycles of solar activity?
S.Sh. We checked, of course.
A.G. And what?
S.Sh. It's good when 50 years pass, you can measure. There is an amazingly accurate indicator - the amplitude of fluctuations. There is a fine structure, and there is also an amplitude. On the graph - solar activity and the amplitude of fluctuations over 25 years. Apparently, this activity determines the amplitude. Everything is published, after the first 25 years it was published. And with radioactivity it is bad, because it feels it little, and precisely because nothing affects it. On other processes it's wonderful. There are years when the work is accurate, well, months there, seasons. And suddenly the same high-class experimenter, his devices begin to walk like this. By the way, maybe people behave the same way at this moment, and the climate and so on. What do physicists do when their devices go like this? A soldering iron, a screwdriver, and they start improving it for several months. And you look - they have improved. A different time has passed. What do chemists do?
They purify reagents, suddenly bad water has gone, some other nonsense. And after some time, and everything, when the work goes well, they publish articles. The next periods refute them and look for reasons. The reputation of the authors perishes, but we walk under the cosmos, so as not to say under God, that is, we walk under the influence ... But I specifically move away from this to the very bottom. Now you can only rise.
A.G. What results would you expect if measurements were taken, say, on the international space station?
S.Sh. I passionately want to. Passionately. This is the exact word, it's a passion - to launch everything into a satellite. The fact is that there are completely different days, I can't do it. I've been trying for a long time. When the Soviet Union collapsed now, there was still hope before, but I didn't have time. They even invited me. And now the Americans are going to interplanetary stations. But I hope that I will find ... I just don't have the strength. An experiment like this is urgently needed, I can't put it yet. But there is hope. There are friendly contacts with people working in these areas.
We are saved by the "human factor". I must also say thank you to wonderful people at the Institute of the Arctic and Antarctic. Eduard Stepanovich Gorshkov, Oleg Alexandrovich Troshichev, Sergey Nikolaevich Shapovalov - these are people who take measurements in Antarctica, in the Arctic, everywhere. In collaboration with them, we have obtained important results on measurements at distances, at different latitudes, at different longitudes. I can't tell everything in one story, but it's just wonderful that we can still cooperate against the background of complete unselfishness.
A.G. Here's another question that came to my mind. How do lunar and solar eclipses affect measurement results?
S.Sh. You are asking about the sore spot. The fact is that we missed one solar eclipse, we just went, set up, and our device broke down. But there is a wonderful phenomenon, I can only tell you as an announcement, which is excitingly interesting. What is an eclipse? An eclipse is when the Moon's shutter passes between the Sun and the Earth. So, every new moon imitates an eclipse. I have a pack of such materials with me, I would, well, if I were, so to speak, strongly excited, I would show everything, but I won't show. At the moment of the new moon, the same picture passes all over the Earth, from the Arctic to the Antarctic, this is an amazing thing. The distance is 12 thousand kilometers, measurement in Antarctica, in the Arctic and in Pushchino with an accuracy of several minutes, one picture. I have now sent this to a very solid journal, and, of course, I will get a rejection, to the German theoretical journal "Annals of Physics", the most noble journal. All the same, I will publish it in Russian. But I'm generally strange, I'm old. Therefore, I don't like to write in English. I just can't do anything. I want to write in Russian. This can sound completely bast shoe-like, to talk about kvass and lemonade. I like to freely express my thoughts in a language close to me than to strain out language formulas.
TV viewer. Hello. Taking into account what has just been said, Simon Eliyevich, maybe it would already be possible to try to derive some coefficients that would include both the solar and lunar cycles, and local geomagnetic conditions as well? You know, of course, immune-enzyme analysis and all other such things, and these fluctuations were present there from year to year. We also had no strength, no youth, and I am not young. Nevertheless, what you are saying, it seems to me, is already relevant at the level of measurements and derivation of coefficients, taking into account the amendments.
S.Sh. We have absolutely quantitative work. We estimate with high accuracy the intervals between similar pictures. The errors there go in the range of 10 to minus seventh, minus twelfth degree, these are accurate quantitative estimates. And you, apparently, are talking about correlations of states. With magnetic fields - it doesn't work out, with the phases of the Moon - it seems to work out. But I don't know that. I will have to say more and more often "I don't know".
There was a philosopher I loved, though I know him little, Nicholas of Cusa, a Catholic cardinal. Following Socrates, he introduced the concept of "true ignorance" into science. He wrote a book about true ignorance. I have entered the fields of true ignorance further than many. Until it is done - I am afraid of statements. Everything turns out so unexpectedly.
There is Boris Mikhailovich Vladimirsky at the Crimean Observatory - the pride of the once Soviet Union - who has a lot on this topic ...
TV viewer. What prospects do you see for your work for modern science? What practical results can be obtained using your works?
S.Sh. Practical - I don't know. I think that for practice - my work is useless. Those who make ordinary measurements do not need to know the fine structure. The average, root-mean-square and two more moments - and that's enough. Humanity will have enough for most jobs. And how many people need to know the state of the world? I think several people on Earth.
A.G. And did you manage to mark any geotectonic events in the histograms? Is there such a correlation?
S.Sh. This must be done. We have enthusiasts, but I can't do this. This is all the same true ignorance. And it seems a lot.
The fact is this. The magnitudes of earthquakes are so rough, well, 9, and I need at least three-digit numbers. For analysis, I need fine and accurate work. They don't do this, it's very strange. And in general, the whole field of such biophysics is all ahead, there is no strength. And there is contact with the Institute of Physics of the Earth, and my highly respected colleagues are there, but they themselves will not do it. They would feed graduate students. They would just make scholarships so that they could live. But the grant is called, at least they could, well, just not work part-time around the clock with lessons and something else. And young people and middle-aged people cannot live like this. And here I can ... I can afford it, what is it to me? - a professor in two places, I can afford to sit all the rest of the time at the computer and watch. They have to look for money.
A.G. Here we have agreed with you on the favorite topic of very many who come to this studio - this is the future of science, how it is seen in the 21st century. And here, since there is an obvious gap between generations ...
S.Sh. Terrible! I'm afraid it's already almost irreversible. Well, another year or two, we are dying, we are burying someone all the time. It's just awful! Well, a generation ...
A.G. All this means a gap in both tradition and school.
S.Sh. It is already irreversible, maybe, I already think that maybe it is already irreversible. Well, I don't know. No, well, really, I took an exam today. I had wonderful students of the Faculty of Physics today.
A.G. How do you predict yourself, what number?
S.Sh. They will leave. Here are the 8 who delighted me today, out of 20, they will leave.
A.G. So look, they will leave. You will release 8 more, 10 more ...
S.Sh. And then there will be no one to let go.
A.G. Will there be no one to release?
S.Sh. Our department is holding on, the department of biophysics of the Faculty of Physics is holding on.
A.G. This is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that sooner or later in the West, where they go, the market will also be saturated.
S.Sh. Not only will it be saturated. You know what else is a pity: they take away everything that we have accumulated, not because I need to stop the "brain drain". This is all a lie. This is not a leak, it's for safekeeping. But here a person spoke and said now, the Belousov reaction. Boris Pavlovich Belousov and graduate student Zhabotinsky. He, Tolya Zhabotinsky, has been there for more than 10 years. And he works there quietly somewhere, studying his own reaction. Well, what is this?! And here we have ... there are not even reagents for this reaction. We have been dealing with it for so many years. We laid all the foundations, the science of synergetics arose on our basis. In our institute. Our director Ivanitsky and everyone who has something to do with it, these are all people, Molchanov ..., who love differential equations. Science arose with us, the first congress was with us. Where is it now? Who? Who is in Nice, who is in Denmark, most of them are in the States. We ... How much longer? How much can you take fundamental questions from one source? Therefore, the Americans and others cannot do this at all, they "knock down grants" in the market frenzy. And to allow, as for me ... Just think what a state it was ?! So, another ... I was engaged in everything for 50 years, of course, I paid with teaching for freedom. But no one kicked me out of work ?! True, I tried not to advertise my pursuits, but still everyone knew that work was going on there, but he was doing the same thing all the time.
A.G. I will not urge you to be more optimistic after everything that has been said here today. But let's still try to predict. I have heard such statements that science in the 21st century should return to the cells, to the monastery, that there should be 10 times fewer scientists, and they should occupy a different social position in society than in the 20th century? Do you agree with this?
S.Sh. It depends on what kind of science. Science consists of two varieties. The science of pioneers has always been piece-work, always individuals and always in poverty. This is normal, it should be like this, maybe. People who go there not in order to become academicians and vice-presidents should go there.
A.G. That is, in fact, a feat.
S.Sh. Feats. It is definitely an internal need, there is no need to call anyone here. You just don't have to kill them. And another science is processing. I have long ago, here is this book, the division into geologists and jewelers. Someone calculates where there should be diamonds. They are laughed at. In the Yakut taiga he found, in Arkhangelsk. Here's more. He dies, he is forgotten, then they find, then someone extracts, brings inconspicuous pebbles. And then the jewelers make beautiful diamonds, receive grants, arrange holidays. And there will come, to a restaurant, a disheveled, dirty, overalls discoverer ... Yes, he will not be allowed in there: who goes to a restaurant without a tie and in general without a bow tie, without a tuxedo? That's all. Geologists and jewelers. There should be a lot of jewelers, they need to make factories. And this is the real molecular biology now. Here is the genome to consider. This is a separate topic, I'm close to this even by specialty. The genome is a factory, colossal. We are here in a terrible state. We haven't done anything there. The whole world is doing the genome. Well, that's good. Just there will be no one to understand soon what they have done there. Well, there are still a few. We would have to preserve the jewelry science and pay them, of course! A person who incorrectly makes diamond facets, because he could have been hanged in the Middle Ages. He takes communion, changes clothes, prays and makes the right face. It is worthy of respect. But first, the diamonds had to be found!